Date   

Re: APEX Loop Front End Diodes

John Farrer
 

I run QRO to an 80m vertical 30ft away and the end of an 160m inverted L is 50 feet away from my SAL30 Mk1. I have not had any problems. This is the reply I received from ArraySolutions when I asked the question in 2016:

You run 400W, should be ok.  But if your at 1kW+ there are 16V zeners in front of the preamp.  Which should handle most overload situations.
Jay

Any degradation of the SAL performance due to proximity is unavoidable in my case as I have limited space.
Good luck
John G3XHZ

On 28 Nov 2021, at 19:49, wa5puq <jlangdon1@...> wrote:



If you are that close to transmit antennas and towers, the direction pattern of the SAL may be seriously degraded, which is a separate issue from the induced voltages when transmitting.

 

73 John N5CQ

 

From: sharedapexloop@groups.io <sharedapexloop@groups.io> On Behalf Of steve@...
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2021 12:46 PM
To: sharedapexloop@groups.io
Cc: steve@...
Subject: [sharedapexloop] APEX Loop Front End Diodes

 

I am putting up a SAL-20 in the back woods of my city lot.  It is close enough to other transmit antennas that I am concerned about damage to the front end.  Mark KB7GF gave me the 16V zener part number for protection (NXP BZX84-C16,215).  Has anyone installed these, or operated your Apex loop close to transmit antennas with no zeners but no damage?

 

I cannot find the info on the forums that discussed this in the past; may have got lost when the old platform for the forum was shut down.

 

No SO2R or multi op here so not worried about IM.

 

regards, steve K9WO

 


Re: APEX Loop Front End Diodes

steve@...
 

John, the only antenna I have that is close is temporary so I can test if the directional pattern is affected when I take it down.

 

Ralph K9ZO, I should of clarified what I am concerned about is the APEX pre-amp being damaged.  I do have the DX Engineering receiver protector on my receiver to protect the receiver front end.  Looks like you have no problem 100 feet away.

 

Looking for practical experience from users who have installed the diode(s) or operated a SAL APEX array close to transmit antennas without damage.

 

regards, steve K9WO

 

From: sharedapexloop@groups.io <sharedapexloop@groups.io> On Behalf Of wa5puq
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2021 1:50 PM
To: sharedapexloop@groups.io
Subject: Re: [sharedapexloop] APEX Loop Front End Diodes

 

If you are that close to transmit antennas and towers, the direction pattern of the SAL may be seriously degraded, which is a separate issue from the induced voltages when transmitting.

 

73 John N5CQ

 

From: sharedapexloop@groups.io <sharedapexloop@groups.io> On Behalf Of steve@...
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2021 12:46 PM
To: sharedapexloop@groups.io
Cc: steve@...
Subject: [sharedapexloop] APEX Loop Front End Diodes

 

I am putting up a SAL-20 in the back woods of my city lot.  It is close enough to other transmit antennas that I am concerned about damage to the front end.  Mark KB7GF gave me the 16V zener part number for protection (NXP BZX84-C16,215).  Has anyone installed these, or operated your Apex loop close to transmit antennas with no zeners but no damage?

 

I cannot find the info on the forums that discussed this in the past; may have got lost when the old platform for the forum was shut down.

 

No SO2R or multi op here so not worried about IM.

 

regards, steve K9WO

 


Re: APEX Loop Front End Diodes

wa5puq
 

If you are that close to transmit antennas and towers, the direction pattern of the SAL may be seriously degraded, which is a separate issue from the induced voltages when transmitting.

 

73 John N5CQ

 

From: sharedapexloop@groups.io <sharedapexloop@groups.io> On Behalf Of steve@...
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2021 12:46 PM
To: sharedapexloop@groups.io
Cc: steve@...
Subject: [sharedapexloop] APEX Loop Front End Diodes

 

I am putting up a SAL-20 in the back woods of my city lot.  It is close enough to other transmit antennas that I am concerned about damage to the front end.  Mark KB7GF gave me the 16V zener part number for protection (NXP BZX84-C16,215).  Has anyone installed these, or operated your Apex loop close to transmit antennas with no zeners but no damage?

 

I cannot find the info on the forums that discussed this in the past; may have got lost when the old platform for the forum was shut down.

 

No SO2R or multi op here so not worried about IM.

 

regards, steve K9WO

 


Re: APEX Loop Front End Diodes

Ralph Bellas
 

I put a DX engineering receiver protector right by the DX antenna port on the radio.  Remember the coax to the phasing unit gets voltage to switch directions.  I put a couple ferrite chokes on that lead.  My nearest transmit antenna is about 100 ft away .


From: sharedapexloop@groups.io <sharedapexloop@groups.io> on behalf of steve@... <steve@...>
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2021 12:46:22 PM
To: sharedapexloop@groups.io <sharedapexloop@groups.io>
Cc: steve@... <steve@...>
Subject: [sharedapexloop] APEX Loop Front End Diodes
 

I am putting up a SAL-20 in the back woods of my city lot.  It is close enough to other transmit antennas that I am concerned about damage to the front end.  Mark KB7GF gave me the 16V zener part number for protection (NXP BZX84-C16,215).  Has anyone installed these, or operated your Apex loop close to transmit antennas with no zeners but no damage?

 

I cannot find the info on the forums that discussed this in the past; may have got lost when the old platform for the forum was shut down.

 

No SO2R or multi op here so not worried about IM.

 

regards, steve K9WO

 


APEX Loop Front End Diodes

steve@...
 

I am putting up a SAL-20 in the back woods of my city lot.  It is close enough to other transmit antennas that I am concerned about damage to the front end.  Mark KB7GF gave me the 16V zener part number for protection (NXP BZX84-C16,215).  Has anyone installed these, or operated your Apex loop close to transmit antennas with no zeners but no damage?

 

I cannot find the info on the forums that discussed this in the past; may have got lost when the old platform for the forum was shut down.

 

No SO2R or multi op here so not worried about IM.

 

regards, steve K9WO

 


Re: EZNEC File

Ian
 

Hi Ed.  I’ve tried but failed!!!   The big problem is the feedpoint.   I think it is all due to the fact that there nothing to define a fixed point on the loop RF wise!

I have built the 30 and find it good on 160 and reasonable on 80.   Other than that it’s a useful aerial for HF but no real pattern.  

I would be interested in how your 20 goes on HF

With all the problems I had on the control box I am conversant with that design 

73

Ian

On Sun, 28 Nov 2021 at 14:59, Ed Johnson <ed@...> wrote:any with that

I am trying to evaluate a SAL-20 for low angle signals.  Does anyone have an EZNEC file for any of the SAL antennas (preferably the MKII series).?
Thanks,
Ed W2PH


EZNEC File

Ed Johnson <ed@...>
 

I am trying to evaluate a SAL-20 for low angle signals.  Does anyone have an EZNEC file for any of the SAL antennas (preferably the MKII series).?
Thanks,
Ed W2PH


Re: Question about the couplers

Mark Bauman
 

Hello Marco,

I have an experimental SAL amplifier module that has lower gain and improved IMD response that I can send you to see if that improves your situation. This module also has a header that you can use to add an external filter if necessary.

If you would like to try this module, please send an email with your shipping information to me at the following address: kb7gf at arrl.net (replace the "at" with the @ symbol).

73,

Mark KB7GF

On Sun, Sep 5, 2021 at 12:08 PM Marco Steiner <marco@...> wrote:

Sorry, the first link is invalid.

 

Here is a better one:

 

https://nextcloud.csww.de/s/s3BBkA7FAGE7Mna

 

 

The first part is real, the second is full of intermodulation products.

 

 

 

Von: sharedapexloop@groups.io <sharedapexloop@groups.io> Im Auftrag von Marco Steiner
Gesendet: Sonntag, 5. September 2021 20:34
An: sharedapexloop@groups.io
Betreff: [sharedapexloop] Question about the couplers

 

Hello Apex friends!

 

We have severe problems with the Apex-30 here in Germany due to intermodulation interference.

We don't have these problems when using an Apex-12.

Can it make sense to reduce the ferrites of the couplers on the Apex-30?

How does that work?

The opposite can be seen with the Apex-12, which brings relatively little signal strength.

Does it make sense here to increase the number of ferrites in the couplers?

 

Here is a comparison of Apex-12 and Apex-30: https://nextcloud.csww.de/s/DiBZ2J6tLLcDj45

 

 

Best regards

 

Marco


Re: Question about the couplers

Marco Steiner
 

Sorry, the first link is invalid.

 

Here is a better one:

 

https://nextcloud.csww.de/s/s3BBkA7FAGE7Mna

 

 

The first part is real, the second is full of intermodulation products.

 

 

 

Von: sharedapexloop@groups.io <sharedapexloop@groups.io> Im Auftrag von Marco Steiner
Gesendet: Sonntag, 5. September 2021 20:34
An: sharedapexloop@groups.io
Betreff: [sharedapexloop] Question about the couplers

 

Hello Apex friends!

 

We have severe problems with the Apex-30 here in Germany due to intermodulation interference.

We don't have these problems when using an Apex-12.

Can it make sense to reduce the ferrites of the couplers on the Apex-30?

How does that work?

The opposite can be seen with the Apex-12, which brings relatively little signal strength.

Does it make sense here to increase the number of ferrites in the couplers?

 

Here is a comparison of Apex-12 and Apex-30: https://nextcloud.csww.de/s/DiBZ2J6tLLcDj45

 

 

Best regards

 

Marco


Question about the couplers

Marco Steiner
 

Hello Apex friends!

 

We have severe problems with the Apex-30 here in Germany due to intermodulation interference.

We don't have these problems when using an Apex-12.

Can it make sense to reduce the ferrites of the couplers on the Apex-30?

How does that work?

The opposite can be seen with the Apex-12, which brings relatively little signal strength.

Does it make sense here to increase the number of ferrites in the couplers?

 

Here is a comparison of Apex-12 and Apex-30: https://nextcloud.csww.de/s/DiBZ2J6tLLcDj45

 

 

Best regards

 

Marco


Re: Common Mode Choke

RIchard Thorne
 

Thanks for the responses.

Rich - N5ZC

On 8/29/2021 2:57 PM, RIchard Thorne wrote:
Is a common mode choke recommended on the SAL-30.
If you use one what are you using?
Rich - N5ZC


Re: Common Mode Choke

Chuck Dietz
 

I do the same. Here is a picture.

Chuck W5PR


On Mon, Aug 30, 2021 at 6:45 AM NC3Z <nc3z@...> wrote:
I use a home brew one at each end of the feedline as I wanted to ensure that the feedline did not act as a BOG. I used 4 each of these to wrap 6 or 7 turns of the coax.

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/623-2631803802

--
Gary Mitchelson
NC3Z/4 Pamlico County, NC FM15
NC AHIMT COML
SHARES NCS997






Re: Common Mode Choke

NC3Z
 

I use a home brew one at each end of the feedline as I wanted to ensure that the feedline did not act as a BOG. I used 4 each of these to wrap 6 or 7 turns of the coax.

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/623-2631803802

--
Gary Mitchelson
NC3Z/4 Pamlico County, NC FM15
NC AHIMT COML
SHARES NCS997


Re: Common Mode Choke

Jay
 

The SAL combiner has an isolation choke built into it where the feedline comes in.  But if your in a heavy BCB area you may want to have one at the shack end as well.

Jay Terleski
Array Solutions
214 954 7140



On Sun, Aug 29, 2021 at 3:11 PM wa5puq <jlangdon1@...> wrote:
Rich,

I have tried it with and without https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-rfcc-1 and it makes no perceived difference in receive performance, but I just feel better about it. I also have tried it with and without the shield grounded at the antenna (previous to a 20 ft underground run of RG6) and that makes no performance difference either.

73 John N5CQ


-----Original Message-----
From: sharedapexloop@groups.io <sharedapexloop@groups.io> On Behalf Of RIchard Thorne
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2021 2:57 PM
To: sharedapexloop@groups.io
Subject: [sharedapexloop] Common Mode Choke

Is a common mode choke recommended on the SAL-30.

If you use one what are you using?

Rich - N5ZC












Re: Common Mode Choke

Chuck Dietz
 

I use chokes at both ends. I think it made it quieter, but maybe that’s just wishful thinking. I know it didn’t hurt anything. Mine has been working better than ever since I rebuilt it and moved it a couple of feet higher. Unfortunately, I just got a break somewhere in the line, so I guess I’ll be burying the next feed line. I have used direct burial cable from Phat Satellite. It seems good and the price is right. 

Chuck W5PR 

On Sun, Aug 29, 2021 at 4:27 PM RIchard Thorne <rthorne@...> wrote:
Thanks for the link John,

Where did you install the choke at the antenna feed point or the shack
entrance, or both?

I found a better spot on my lot for the SAL-30.  Last year it was close
to my steel building / shack.  It performed great on 80m but so-so on
160.  I'm hoping the new location will improve things, not that I have
many options.

I plan on doing a more permanent install like you and John, AC4CA did.

Rich - N5ZC

On 8/29/2021 3:11 PM, wa5puq wrote:
> Rich,
>
> I have tried it with and without https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-rfcc-1 and it makes no perceived difference in receive performance, but I just feel better about it. I also have tried it with and without the shield grounded at the antenna (previous to a 20 ft underground run of RG6) and that makes no performance difference either.
>
> 73 John N5CQ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sharedapexloop@groups.io <sharedapexloop@groups.io> On Behalf Of RIchard Thorne
> Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2021 2:57 PM
> To: sharedapexloop@groups.io
> Subject: [sharedapexloop] Common Mode Choke
>
> Is a common mode choke recommended on the SAL-30.
>
> If you use one what are you using?
>
> Rich - N5ZC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>






Re: Common Mode Choke

RIchard Thorne
 

Thanks for the link John,

Where did you install the choke at the antenna feed point or the shack entrance, or both?

I found a better spot on my lot for the SAL-30. Last year it was close to my steel building / shack. It performed great on 80m but so-so on 160. I'm hoping the new location will improve things, not that I have many options.

I plan on doing a more permanent install like you and John, AC4CA did.

Rich - N5ZC

On 8/29/2021 3:11 PM, wa5puq wrote:
Rich,
I have tried it with and without https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-rfcc-1 and it makes no perceived difference in receive performance, but I just feel better about it. I also have tried it with and without the shield grounded at the antenna (previous to a 20 ft underground run of RG6) and that makes no performance difference either.
73 John N5CQ
-----Original Message-----
From: sharedapexloop@groups.io <sharedapexloop@groups.io> On Behalf Of RIchard Thorne
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2021 2:57 PM
To: sharedapexloop@groups.io
Subject: [sharedapexloop] Common Mode Choke
Is a common mode choke recommended on the SAL-30.
If you use one what are you using?
Rich - N5ZC


Re: Common Mode Choke

wa5puq
 

Rich,

I have tried it with and without https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-rfcc-1 and it makes no perceived difference in receive performance, but I just feel better about it. I also have tried it with and without the shield grounded at the antenna (previous to a 20 ft underground run of RG6) and that makes no performance difference either.

73 John N5CQ

-----Original Message-----
From: sharedapexloop@groups.io <sharedapexloop@groups.io> On Behalf Of RIchard Thorne
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2021 2:57 PM
To: sharedapexloop@groups.io
Subject: [sharedapexloop] Common Mode Choke

Is a common mode choke recommended on the SAL-30.

If you use one what are you using?

Rich - N5ZC


Common Mode Choke

RIchard Thorne
 

Is a common mode choke recommended on the SAL-30.

If you use one what are you using?

Rich - N5ZC


Re: Old Sal New SAL MKII

NC3Z
 

Oscar, I converted my Mark I into a Mark II of my own making. Pictures here in this forum and on my QRZ. The new aluminum vertical mast replaced the vertical wires and the horizontal and diagonal stayed the same. Mine is elevated though.

--
Gary Mitchelson
NC3Z/4 Pamlico County, NC FM15
NC AHIMT COML
SHARES NCS997


Added album W5PR Homebrew SAL-30 MKii #photo-notice

sharedapexloop@groups.io Notification <noreply@...>
 

Chuck Dietz <w5pr@...> added the album W5PR Homebrew SAL-30 MKii

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